Groh bashers only tell part of the story

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Regardless of what transpires over the next 24 hours in terms of Virginia football, there are a few things that need to be said.

For those who tend to live on the negative side, then you should skip on to something else.

I’m not a Virginia alum. My allegiances as a fan have rested with a school in the Deep South since I was old enough to watch football. I’m paid to be an impartial observer of UVa athletics, something I’ve done since 1982.

I was at the press conference when George Welsh was introduced as coach and have missed only two games since. Over the years, I’ve gained a lot of insight and inside knowledge from Welsh, his assistants, and Al Groh and his staff, stuff that most people aren’t privy.

That’s why I find it necessary to defend Groh in this column today. Yes, I do like Groh. I think he’s a good coach and I believe he will get things going again at UVa.

I’m sure that many of you don’t agree and will be inclined to rip me on the message boards and send me nasty e-mails. Go ahead — I’m accustomed to such negativity. I learned a long time ago that no matter where you went to school, that class didn’t automatically come with a degree.

Poisonous atmosphere

To avoid any confusion, I’m not lumping all Virginia fans together. However, in the 26 seasons I have covered UVa athletics, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen so much negativity.

I’ve covered five other major colleges in my career and never witnessed so much of it.

I knew things had to be bad when one former UVa All-American came up and said that he preferred playing road games because the atmosphere at Scott Stadium was so negative.

After all that Welsh did for UVa and the football program — essentially performing a coaching miracle — I still can’t believe the way many fans treated him the last few seasons of his career. George is as tough as they come, and that bothered him.

Sure, Groh’s team just finished 5-7. However, let’s look at two key factors.

Scrambling for a QB

First of all, he had to play the season with essentially the team’s third-string quarterback. Now, I’m not throwing Marc Verica under the bus. I really like the kid. What he did accomplish was impressive. But as I wrote during that success, he was due for some bad days because he was a rookie and hadn’t gone through the process.

Ask any head coach in the country what their season would have been like this year if they had lost their top two quarterbacks and had to essentially go back to the drawing board.

I did.

The few I talked to said they were amazed that Groh could win a single game after that happened — let alone four, two of them against ranked teams (I still believe Georgia Tech is the best team in the ACC).

I firmly believe that had Jameel Sewell or Pete Lalich been around for the whole season, the Cavs would have been in the ACC Championship game Saturday.

The fact that UVa went 5-7 against what was ranked by Sagarin as the toughest schedule in the nation should not be ignored. If you watched football yesterday, you would have noted that Virginia gave ACC champ Virginia Tech a better game in Blacksburg than Boston College did in Tampa.

You might have also noticed that East Carolina won the Conference USA championship and that Richmond hammered defending FCS champion Appalachian State. Oh, and Southern California kept on rolling.

Speaking of USC, give Groh some credit. After the VAF and athletic department created tons of ill will among a segment of its fan base with its reseating of Scott Stadium, one of the lures or remedies was to schedule the Trojans in order to create some excitement and draw fans.

The Cavs had practically no chance of winning. Had Groh not been a team player and instead scheduled teams like Clemson and some other schools chose to play, sure wins, the Cavs would have been bowl eligible regardless of what happened down the stretch.

I also asked some head coaches about that. One of them said, “I didn’t see a whole lot of people lining up to schedule USC.”

Those are two huge factors that can turn any team’s season.

Meanwhile, fans are complaining about Groh’s record over eight seasons: 56-44 with a 3-2 bowl record that’s a lot closer to 5-0 than some may think. That’s an average of seven wins a year.

Welsh’s last eight seasons saw the Cavs win 61 games, or an average of 7.6 wins per year, and a 2-5 bowl record.

Now, if Welsh, who is considered one of the top coaches in college football history (he’s in the Hall of Fame) couldn’t average more than 7.6, tell me who could?

Virginia tried its best to get Mark Richt to come here after George retired, and Richt and his wife loved Charlottesville, the University, but he realized that under the conditions that weren’t likely to change, he could rarely win more than eight games a year here. Yes, that’s fact, not fiction.

Then we keep hearing all the comparisons and frustration about losing to Virginia Tech. Well, who doesn’t lose to Tech?

Give Frank Beamer credit. He’s got an incredible program going and he’s a surefire Hall of Famer himself. Plus, he has one of the nation’s top assistants in Bud Foster, who has made a difference.

UVa is 1-7 vs. Tech during the Groh era, although last week’s results indicate there’s not that much separating the two programs at the current moment.

Here’s how the rest of the ACC has done against the Hokies: Duke 0-5; N.C. State 1-1; Wake Forest 0-2 (Deacons coach Jim Grobe was last year’s national coach of the year); Georgia Tech 1-4; UNC 0-5; Maryland 0-3; Florida State 2-1; Clemson 0-2. BC and Miami are expansion teams but BC owns a 4-5 record against Tech since ‘01, while Miami is 4-4.

Virginia fans like to throw academics in the face of their opponents, so the fact that the Cavaliers can’t always get their choice of athletes or keep them for that matter due to academics can’t be ignored either.

I’m not poking fun of Virginia Tech here, but there are differences. The fact that any kid goes to college and betters themselves is terrific. However, if you’re a recruit and you can go to Tech and choose an easier major and play in front of a more enthusiastic crowd, which would you choose?

Of Tech’s starting 22 players, 10 of them list their course study as “apparel, housing and resource management.” Again, I’m not saying that’s bad. I’m saying it’s different.

Getting back to the quarterback thing. If you’ll look at the last 25 years or so of UVa football, then you might notice that in all of the seasons that the Cavaliers won eight or more games, there was a pretty good quarterback running the show: Don Majkowski (‘84); Scott Secules (‘87, he led the ACC in passing); Shawn Moore (‘89 and ‘90); Matt Blundin (‘91, he led the ACC in passing); Mike Groh (‘94 ... led the ACC, and ‘95); Aaron Brooks (‘98); Matt Schaub (‘02 and ‘03); Marques Hagans (‘04) and Sewell last season.

Lesson: when you have a quality quarterback, things usually go well. When you don’t ...

Groh has also been handicapped by the early entrance deal. Virginia is the only ACC school that discourages it (although one guy seems to be squeezing through this time around). Several of the other ACC schools sign well over the 25-recruit limit, and believe me, it makes a difference.

Groh runs a clean program and gets rid of troublemakers. Some schools keep them on the team.

UVa’s recruiting seems to be improving in the Commonwealth. If you have been paying attention, several coaches have said that Groh is doing a good job and are sending players his way.

Howie Long, Todd Lalich (Pete’s father) and Tiki Barber have all sang Groh’s praise over the past 12 months. Those aren’t bad endorsements.

And, please, give me a break on the sign ban thing at Scott Stadium. Groh had nothing to do with that, any more than he had anything to do with the reseating of the stadium. That blame falls elsewhere.

Then there’s the matter of expectations.

Why do you think Virginia is the only school in the ACC (pre-expansion) that has not won an outright league championship in football or men’s basketball since 1976?

It’s not coaching.

That’s a column for another day.

In the meantime, it makes me wonder what might happen if the Virginia fan base got behind Groh the way Tech fans have supported Beamer all these years. Something positive just might happen.

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Reader Reactions

Flag Comment Posted by fan007 on December 11, 2008 at 10:28 am

Sorry Jerry, you just don’t get it.

Fans are disgruntled because of the price increase of the tickets and the donations required for seats.  For what?  A 5-7 team, no bowl, 1-9 versus VT.  Who does UVa think they are?  Florida, Texas, USC, Oklahoma, Alabama?  Keep sitting in your press box supporting an overpaid coach.  The answer, my friend, is not blowing in the wind.  The answer is the numbers on the scoreboard.  Win, then you’ll get the support.  This program has been going downhill since Welsh left.  Sure, last year they won 9 games.  How many wins by 2 points or less?  Fluke.  Doesn’t happen often.  They could very well have been 5-7 last year.  Players love heir coaches, no doubt, but fans and alumni want to go bowling and an occasional win versus VT would be nice.

Flag Comment Posted by FirstAmendment on December 11, 2008 at 8:45 am

Cates,
I would suggest you double what you pay now to attend a game.  This is more about poor decisions made on and off the field.  The sore nerve for many fans are the inexcusable plays called by a PAID staff that should know better.  The former OC is a good example.  Get it?

Flag Comment Posted by B.Cates on December 10, 2008 at 7:50 pm

It seems to be that a lot   of these True Orange&Blue;HOO fans are really upset about the cost of Football at Scotts Stadium.I would suggest that y’all should consider JMU or VMI football in Harrisonburg or Lexington as it will be much less expensive.I attended a W&L Hampden&Sydney;game in Lexington a couple of years and walked in at no charge.They weren’t even selling tickets.Check it out!The bottom line is Virginia at Scotts is very competitive both at the box office regarding cost and on the field,in fact Al Groh was voted Coach of the year in the ACC in 2007.Regards,B

Flag Comment Posted by FirstAmendment on December 10, 2008 at 8:48 am

Maybe the fans should set their expectations lower but then I would also expect UVA to lower the cost & increased forced donations which they increase without merit.

Flag Comment Posted by BigAl on December 09, 2008 at 8:36 am

“Many coaches around the country (football and other sports) went on record as saying they thought the way Groh turned the team around this October was one of the best coaching jobs they had ever seen – in any sport. This is conveniently overlooked by the Groh haters.“

Has anybody bothered to ask those “many coaches around the country” what they think about the teams utter collapse following that turn around? This is conveniently overlooked by the Groh/UVA apologists.

And I guess Groh shared the evaluation of his assistants many here have voiced, since he gave three of them, including the worst offensive coordinator in the country, their walking papers. That was the most encouraging thing to happen to Virginia Football since Chris Long graduated. BY FAR.

Flag Comment Posted by 123whitt on December 08, 2008 at 7:15 pm

Good Neighbor,
Should we as fans sit here and go over every play or every game that was mind blowing over the years.  I mean some of you are ridiculous.  When we sit at games and cheer only on 3rd downs we are wine and cheese fans, when we speak our peace we are negative and water cooler fans.  I could sit here and write and go over my football IQ with you, my playing background all day if you would like.  The fact of the matter is folks who are tired of the same old stretch plays, the 5 yard passes when it’s 3rd and 10, the offense that for some reason is scared to use a fullback.  Hey good neighbor look at the stats when Cedric has 15 carries or more and see what our record is, in case you didn’tknow that is our running back. Yet for some reason the 3 yard out play was more effective I guess. How about that kid who won two state titles at QB,you know the one who almost single handedly beat VT, yeah Vic Hall.  Much better suited at CB I guess. Are you seriously going to tell me that Marc Verica was a better option all year?? The onlytime he didn’t throw a 5 yard pass on 3rd and long was when we needed him too,and he threw another ill advised pick. Please don’t sit here and critique our football acumen.  The man came here predicting championships, spoke a big game, we paid him as such,and he hasn’t delivered.  He has underacheived and the salary does matter Good Neighbor.  We could be paying our football coach 500k a year for a record like his to be middle of the pack every year, to go almost a decade without an ACC title. The other money can go for other things. Not to mention the program hasn’t been so clean of late in case you missed it. No one expects BCS births and championships every year, at least I don’t.  However with the ACC down like it has been, the window was there to take advantage, and we didn’t. And please stop with how hard it is to recruit, and how hard it is to maintain excellence at a high level academic school.  We all KNOW THIS.  I’m sure Mr. Groh is a fine man, however his arrogance to some of the fans and media I believe has run it’s course.  Change isn’t always beneficial, however in this case something needs to be done.

Flag Comment Posted by Good Neighbor on December 08, 2008 at 6:25 pm

Those who want Groh gone basically tell us they know all about big time college athletics, and if the coach doesn’t win, fire him. While it is possible that this overly simplistic conclusion is correct, these folks offer no detailed analysis supporting their opinion. Or, they offer what they consider good reasons, but I don’t think any coach in America would agree with them, although I’m sure their buddies around the water cooler would, since they don’t want to encourage the blowhard to keep going on and on about Groh.

While many folks talk the talk of a Monday morning quarterback par excellance, they, of course, have no knowledge at all of what it takes to build a major college football program. Yet, they have actually convinced themselves that their opinions are worthy of consideration when UVA makes decisions regarding the future of the program. Most have never played major college football and most have never coached at any level, yet THEY know best how to chart Virginia’s program. 

Now, certainly everyone has the right to engage in this discussion, and it’s always fun to debate any issue you care about, but always know your limitations. Realize the difference in having an opinion (which we all do, along with other things) and being qualified to influence a decision you aren’t qualified to make.

Those who want Groh gone always bring up his salary. I could care less if he makes $500K or $5M, that’s between Groh and his employers. I expect someone to do their job for whatever salary he is paid. Sometimes they bring up play calling, but often the example used is PERFECT play calling, just bad execution.

Groh has won Coach of the year in the ACC several times; the most recent being just last year. Many coaches around the country (football and other sports) went on record as saying they thought the way Groh turned the team around this October was one of the best coaching jobs they had ever seen – in any sport. This is conveniently overlooked by the Groh haters. They are so invested in their opinion that they are the ones who can’t be objective anymore.

The Groh haters talk about Virginia like it could be USC or Florida, or any other football factory. This shows a lack of understanding of the real world of college football, and a lack of understanding about the possibility of bringing a “great” coach to Virginia. The reality is that no “top ten” coach would be interested, at any price. (One of Jerry’s points that is conveniently overlooked)  To talk like it is possible only shows an ignorant and simplistic view of college football – which they pretend to understand.

No one has intelligently and thoroughly debunked Jerry’s points. A few selective statistics were thrown around, but no point-by-point debunking of Jerry’s opinions have been offered – only the same tired amateurish, Monday morning quarterbacking comments that abound on the blogs.

I think Jerry was spot on and I think the criticisms are the manifestations of folks who can’t deal with losses and unfortunately have deluded themselves into thinking that Virginia could be 10-2 to 12-0 every year. They feel this way regardless of the ACC having several future Hall of Fame coaches with National Championships, as well as other great coaches and programs and their desire to win all of their games as well. While other schools have good academics (not as demanding as UVA); many of these schools with good academics for non athletes will make exceptions for their athletes. Not Virginia. Other coaches know this, the prospective athletes know this – evidently the only ones that don’t understand this, are the non-UVA alumni fans.

Al Groh is a great coach. Virginia is lucky to have him.

Flag Comment Posted by George Mason on December 08, 2008 at 1:52 pm

Not just Groh, but a collection of big whigs at the university that consistently underperform.

“I’m sure that many of you don’t agree and will be inclined to rip me on the message boards…“  Did I really read this?  What are you talking about, man.  You are the lead sports writer for this community, I expect better.

Poisonous atmosphere, you had better believe it!  It’s a story you all have heard time and again but Mr. Ratcliffe just seem to relate with his view from the media box, he gets paid to attend the game, so let me say it one more time, and try to relate Jerry to how it might feel for a working person to get this news.  I had the same seats at Scott Stadium since the 1980’s and hadn’t missed a game since 1991 until I got my letter for Littlepage and Co. last year stating “You can APPLY for your seat (125 D 1 & 2) with a donation of…“ some astronomical number.  Poisonous may be an understatement Mr. Ratcliffe, but you suggest that I shut up and move along, well this is why that didn’t happen.  I reluctantly went to one game this year when someone gave me a ticket.  I returned to my old seat, where my neighbors were all surprised to hear that I hadn’t renewed as they all depended on me to answer questions about the game or players.  I sat there the whole game, the new ticket holder didn’t show - it was USC!  I know from my friends that sat around me that the new seats are occupied 50% of the time by someone who shows up and talks on their cell phone the whole time - NICE!  It isn’t the end of the world, no, but darn if I am going to feel good about it and forgive all, let’s get real. 

I could go on and on, and reading the garbage you put out here really inspires and opens wounds.  (sorry, I don’t really saying that but it is what it is).  Groh’s time has come, I say axe them all.  Littlepage too, I can’t stand that man.  Read your own words, the negativity is unbearable you say, well, there is probably a reason for that.  Most of the time the people can’t be fooled but for so long.  Much more of these articles and the tide might start in your direction.  Judging by your arrogant opening, the current is already formed.

Flag Comment Posted by eas on December 08, 2008 at 11:56 am

This article is laugh out loud funny.  Your propensity to write articles with little basis in reality and a total disregard for the facts astounds me.  And you wonder why I call you a third-rate journalist working for a third-rate paper covering a third-rate team with a coach making first-rate pay.  What you call negativity, most people call reality.  It must be nice to live in Neverland.  Perhaps I can come and visit you sometime.

Flag Comment Posted by NM Hoo on December 08, 2008 at 12:25 am

Jerry,

Don’t leave us hanging!


You wrote:
Then there’s the matter of expectations.

Why do you think Virginia is the only school in the ACC (pre-expansion) that has not won an outright league championship in football or men’s basketball since 1976?

It’s not coaching.

That’s a column for another day.

Finish the story!

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